MMORPG.Com: Profiles The Syndicate

[darkane]

Very eloquently put, Hades. I couldn't agree more.

[Havoc]

The problem is the developers aren't really looking for new ideas and drastic changes, but simple yes/no approval. They treat the community like small children and say "hey little boy, does this taste good?" and then they try to feed you some shit that they made. Syndicate acts as a face for the common people, which while good for certain aspects of the game like initial customer feedback, is almost counter-productive to game longevity because they don't understand the inner-workings of the systems.

Now, I would agree that listening to the hardcore people (<5% of the target audience for most games) is a way to get your game bankrupt off the hop but these are the guys that REALLY know design mechanics inside and out for the most part. What needs to happen is either for dev teams start headhunting consultants straight out of the player pool from these upper tier players for pre-alpha phases when core concepts can still be changed or else take the riskier/cheaper route and just get a bunch of top tier thinktank guild groups in for test work (though the external builds come much later in the dev-cycle)

The ultimate goal would be to take the great concept and years of experience from the hardcore squad and apply it in a cohesive (and likely toned down) way to those people who fit in the yes/no category because at the end of the day the game needs to sell copies before they really need to care about longevity.

[Vipir]

Like gaming companies realy listen to the player, doesnt matter what guild. Alot of you were in warhammer beta. You read the beta forums. 60% of the people were saying the game wasnt ready for release. And mythic did a damn good job of keeping end game in pieces till release, So none realy got a good feel for what it would be like till it was to late. Same with shadowbane and aoc. I dont blame anyone but the gaming companies for putting out broken games. And shame on me for buying the damn game's.

I didnt even look at star trek, played like 1 day in mortal. I already knew what they were gonna be like and just didnt feel like the disapoinment. There are 3 games in the future i am looking at . Do i have any hopes they will have kick ass pvp in the end game? No. I also have no illusions on if they will be listing to the player base in the betas. And if by some miracle they do. It will be to some freak who has spent 3 months whineing about being underpowered or needs a safe place to go because he doesnt like being ganked in a pvp game.

Just need one company to do it right. Wow did pve right. Just missed a few elements i wanted in a game for pvp, specialy some kind of penalty for death that means something. If you can shrug your shoulders after you have died and just go on, it aint right. if you release and feel the need to do vile things to the persons who killed you then its right.

And yes Argonic before you jump in i like to do vial things to midgets bodies.

[darkane]

Havoc, what you said about making a game for 5% of the target audience (hardcores) as a way to go bankrupt is, imo, the biggest misconception in MMO development today. And if I was't on a phone I'd elaborate, but alas...

[Havoc]

Ill elaborate before you can rebuke it as that was probably more generalized than what I intended

Hardcore players should not be designing entire games for regular players; anything that I would love in a game would immediately alienate the majority of players. When looking at specific systems on the other hand, that is when we should be tapped as a resource as we've got the most experience in things like raid/end game content, pvp mechanics, risk/reward systems...etc. Developers need to come to the table with a general guideline and say how do we get this in properly.

As a broad example, they say we want a faction based pvp system:
Syndicate: I like faction based pvp
Hardcores: here are 40 things that have failed in the past and thus you CANNOT do... (#1 being 2 factions)

[Vipir]

Originally Posted by Havoc

The problem is the developers aren't really looking for new ideas and drastic changes, but simple yes/no approval. They treat the community like small children and say "hey little boy, does this taste good?" and then they try to feed you some shit that they made. Syndicate acts as a face for the common people, which while good for certain aspects of the game like initial customer feedback, is almost counter-productive to game longevity because they don't understand the inner-workings of the systems.

Understanding what has led you to think they don't know the inner-workings of the game's systems they play has me bit puzzled. Is it based off the fact that ts don't post alot or at all on public boards? It would stand to reason that a group with players who have been around for many years would understand the inner workings regardless of them posting about it publicly or not.. The institutional knowledge built up over time alone would alone mean some level of understanding. No matter what guild it is.

[felldoh]

There's a huge difference between people who can push the buttons in the right order, and those who understand why they're pushing them. It's the same people in every game who find the bugs, who understand the system before everyone else, and who dominate until the nuances of the game become common knowledge. Contrary to popular belief, MMO's are not (entirely) based on time played, and very few players are actually able to innovate. A large quantity of experience only guarantee players will repeat what they already know, not that they'll discover anything new. Actions speak louder than words and if they were innovating anything, people would know.

[Dies]

you need at least 3 factions Good and Bad just doesnt work you need them little underdog pricks to come in and fuck everything up. DAoC was great with the 3 factions on merlin it was great being albion and steamrolling hib and midgrad with a small organized group. In Planetside it was a total fucking blast being a barney and organizng against blueballs and tampons and owning the map with inferior numbers. Nothing gets my blood pumping anymore and being scared to die in game which sucks even DAoC sucked running back to corpse somewhat and even Planetside sucked when tampons had the spawn points camped with the bomb fuckers but still fun breaking it. MMORPG's suck now and Warhammer 40k better do more than 2 factions its just not fun the good and bad need that little prink in the ass to make pvp fun.

[Optihut]

Originally Posted by Dies

you need at least 3 factions Good and Bad just doesnt work

Second time I read a statement like this and that had me wondering: Has any company ever tried a 3 team approach in fps? Perhaps developers should be looking into that, as all the games I can think of are either ffa or 2 teams.

[willwill]

aika is doing 7... we'll see how it works out soon enough...